Curse

Daesu · Sep 02, 2009, 06:33 AM // 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

I don't know what delusion you are living under where touch screens are responsive enough to keep up with the number of actions per minute of competitive gaming. Also I can move my mouse on my screen faster than you can move your hands across a monitor.

Mine is able to, I dont know why yours has such poor response time.

With 2 hands on opposite corners of a surface PC, I believe I can alternate between them much faster than you can move your single mouse pointer back and forth.

Like it or not, natural interfaces is the future. Have you heard of Project Natal? That is further into the future but very promising and there are already live demos being performed today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2qlHoxPioM

Gun Pierson · Sep 02, 2009, 10:26 AM // 10:26

Want to see you beat + 120 apm for 20 minutes with your touch screen lol. Simply because you get too tired using your arms and hands keeping them up and touch the screen. It's too energy consuming on the body.

The combination of the mouse + shortkeys on the keyboard will still be way faster until they discover a device that directly executes ingame what you're thinking.

Reverend Dr · Sep 02, 2009, 10:32 AM // 10:32

They are the way of the future. The future, they are not ready at present. I can type between 60 and 80 words a minute. Until touch screens can recognize inputs that fast while still maintaining accuracy, then using that interface instead of the traditional keyboard + mouse is only going to slow down input. In any competitive game slowing down input is surefire way to gimp yourself and won't be used, just like the warcraft panel

The Project Natal stuff does look neat. Game, hardware, and technology developers sure have never made videos or demonstrations that look better than the final product or in any way misleading. I'll believe that we have the technology when it is out and readily available, not a day sooner.

Daesu · Sep 02, 2009, 03:06 PM // 15:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Want to see you beat + 120 apm for 20 minutes with your touch screen lol. Simply because you get too tired using your arms and hands keeping them up and touch the screen. It's too energy consuming on the body.

That depends on your screen orientation isn't it? For the surface PC, it is a table, so there is no need to hold your hands up. For other devices like tablet PC, you can just prop it on your lap.

Quote:

The combination of the mouse + shortkeys on the keyboard will still be way faster until they discover a device that directly executes ingame what you're thinking.

I think voice recognition can be faster. Technologies like project natal offers a different way of interacting with your virtual environment that is alot more natural and flexible.

moriz · Sep 02, 2009, 03:18 PM // 15:18

by the time you've finished saying your command, i've done six commands using my keyboard+mouse.

all in all, your touch screen commands would be about as fast as i am with just my mouse. not particularly impressive. how about this: post a video of you playing with a touch screen, and we'll see just how fast you really are.

Gun Pierson · Sep 02, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

That depends on your screen orientation isn't it? For the surface PC, it is a table, so there is no need to hold your hands up. For other devices like tablet PC, you can just prop it on your lap.

I think voice recognition can be faster. Technologies like project natal offers a different way of interacting with your virtual environment that is alot more natural and flexible.

Lets take your table example for pc, it will still be more draining on the body, not to mention troubles with the back after a while. Another issue comes to mind, cluthering your view as you will constantly move over the screen.

I don't believe voice recognition can be faster either. Unless maybe if you can make sounds as fast as a pro beatboxer + supporting software.

Maybe in the future yes, but Windows 7 is a bit too soon imo. You can proove us sceptics wrong by posting a video demonstrating it.

Celeborn10 · Sep 03, 2009, 01:53 AM // 01:53

My college gave us all god damned tablets. The only people that get any use out of it are those that doodle in lectures. I've tried playing Halo on it, it sucked royally. I'm going to stick to my 3200 DPI g9 until touchscreen becomes a true viable and intuitive option for gaming (never going to happen).

Could touchscreen gaming become viable? Yes, but it would require collaboration between the OS manufacturer, hardware manufacturer and the gaming devs. Even on smartphones with truly viable touchscreen GUI's the games still suck royal balls. God help me if I try to play Pacman on my phone. Games that rely more upon isometric graphics can be played on touchscreens.

Personally if I really want a more intuitive UI I'll fork over the money for a gaming glove and maybe a motion capture glove. Granted the technology is still in development but at least it has made visible progress over the past 5 years I've been watching it. And more to the point it has been marketed for gamers. Think about the cool gloves from Minority Report (but with you, your favorite video game and Schubert playing in the background)!

eyekwah2 · Sep 03, 2009, 10:45 AM // 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

I can easily imagine using that to my advantage in GW. There are things that could be performed much faster and more efficiently this way than with mouse clicks. And all that without getting into what a multi-touch interface could allow!
Need a 3rd hand

Yawgmoth makes an excellent point. We talking about a multi-touch interface or a single-touch interface?

What's the difference you ask? Single-touch interface is and will always be the equivalent of the mouse cursor. One focus, one touch, one action.

Multi-touch means you could touch with more than one finger or even touch with your entire hand, etc. etc. I should say that before this would work, you'd have to have a multi-touch screen (some touch screens simply have the ability to determine a single point and will average touches from multiple locations). Windows 7 would have to support that idea (though I'm guessing they will since the possibilities look very very impressive *link*). Finally, Guild Wars itself would have to support multiple touch interfaces unfortunately.

Though I have some neat ideas in mind with multi-touch ability:

Area of effect spells not only can target an individual, but can be specified by placing your hand on the area you'd like it to take effect.
Target multiple opponents or an ally and an opponent at the same time and cast spells which affect both of them.
Create spell imprints which allow you to make patterns on the screen in order to cast a particular spell equipped on your bar (think Black and White, though far easier using touch screen).
Create slash mark imprints which determine the direction of your swing with the weapon and consequently what attack skill you're using (for example, I might set low slash mark to mean to trigger Hamstring attack).
Click on the location you'd like to move to and simultaneously click on an opponent to shoot arrows or cast spells while moving.

dunky_g · Sep 03, 2009, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyekwah2

Though I have some neat ideas in mind with multi-touch ability:

Area of effect spells not only can target an individual, but can be specified by placing your hand on the area you'd like it to take effect.
Target multiple opponents or an ally and an opponent at the same time and cast spells which affect both of them.
Create spell imprints which allow you to make patterns on the screen in order to cast a particular spell equipped on your bar (think Black and White, though far easier using touch screen).
Create slash mark imprints which determine the direction of your swing with the weapon and consequently what attack skill you're using (for example, I might set low slash mark to mean to trigger Hamstring attack).
Click on the location you'd like to move to and simultaneously click on an opponent to shoot arrows or cast spells while moving.

Im not meaning to sound like a nob, but surely these could be implemented using a keyboard and mouse, i know it would be easier with touch screen, but they dont seem to warrent the need of a touch screen.

Daesu · Sep 03, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyekwah2

Windows 7 would have to support that idea (though I'm guessing they will since the possibilities look very very impressive *link*).

Windows 7 supports multi touch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iTABGen4Ckg

Quote:

Finally, Guild Wars itself would have to support multiple touch interfaces unfortunately.

Yes, I said in earlier posts that the software would have to support it. There is no point for me to attempt to make a video because current Guild Wars just doesn't support touch as it should.

Quote:

Though I have some neat ideas in mind with multi-touch ability:

Area of effect spells not only can target an individual, but can be specified by placing your hand on the area you'd like it to take effect.
Target multiple opponents or an ally and an opponent at the same time and cast spells which affect both of them.
Create spell imprints which allow you to make patterns on the screen in order to cast a particular spell equipped on your bar (think Black and White, though far easier using touch screen).
Create slash mark imprints which determine the direction of your swing with the weapon and consequently what attack skill you're using (for example, I might set low slash mark to mean to trigger Hamstring attack).
Click on the location you'd like to move to and simultaneously click on an opponent to shoot arrows or cast spells while moving.

Interesting suggestions but you can even do a 'Flick' touch gesture to indicate where you want to run to, 'Rotate' to change your view, etc.

Here is a list of the Windows 7 touch gestures from http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/200...windows-7.aspx

Tap and Double-tap – Touch and release to click. This is the most basic touch action. Can also double-tap to open files and folders. Tolerances are tuned to be larger than with a mouse. This works everywhere.
Drag – Touch and slide your finger on screen. Like a dragging with a mouse, this moves icons around the desktop, moves windows, selects text (by dragging left or right), etc. This works everywhere.
Scroll – Drag up or down on the content (not the scrollbar!) of scrollable window to scroll. This may sound basic, but it is the most used (and most useful – it’s a lot easier than targeting the scrollbar!) gesture in the beta according to our telemetry. You’ll notice details that make this a more natural interaction: the inertia if you toss the page and the little bounce when the end of the page is reached. Scrolling is one of the most common activities on the web and in email, and the ability to drag and toss the page is a perfect match for the strengths of touch (simple quick drags on screen). Scrolling is available with one or more fingers. This works in most applications that use standard scrollbars.
Zoom – Pinch two fingers together or apart to zoom in or out on a document. This comes in handy when looking at photos or reading documents on a small laptop. This works in applications that support mouse wheel zooming.
Two-Finger Tap – tapping with two fingers simultaneously zooms in about the center of the gesture or restores to the default zoom – great for zooming in on hyperlinks. Applications need to add code to support this.
Rotate – Touch two spots on a digital photo and twist to rotate it just like a real photo. Applications need to add code to support this.
Flicks – Flick left or right to navigate back and forward in a browser and other apps. This works in most applications that support back and forward.
Press-and-hold – Hold your finger on screen for a moment and release after the animation to get a right-click. This works everywhere.
Or, press-and-tap with a second finger – to get right-click, just like you would click the right button on a mouse or trackpad. This works everywhere.

maxxfury · Sep 03, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

id end up jabbing my finger thru the screen when i get frustrated

like when i poke the keys WAY too hard :P

*slight over exaggeration

refer · Sep 03, 2009, 10:33 PM // 22:33

touching skills would be nice though. interrupt!

MithranArkanere · Sep 03, 2009, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Forget about touch! Image recognition! Project natal is better! You won't ruin the screen!

Touching the screen is like poking your eye with the finger! There are things that are not meant to be touched!

Coney · Sep 04, 2009, 01:46 AM // 01:46

I used touch screens 23 years ago, it is very old technology that is pretty much obsoleted by the mouse on any conventional computer system (save maybe hand-helds ala iphone/etc).

The mouse has way more precision and speed than you'd ever obtain using a touch screen. Perhaps when they have glasses that follow eye movements, the mouse might be obsoleted. But until then, the mouse is the best reflex selection device known to computers...